Kotor 2 Changing Of The Guard

WI: Kreia (KOTOR) in The Last Jedi. Ask her what happened or get her side of the story or even directly confront her he tried to get her to let her guard down she he could roofie her with a needle. You obviously lacked the maturity to understand the character and the writing for KOTOR 2 in general. Widowmaker, Jan 6, 2018 #43. After 10 years of playing TSL, this quest still bewilders me. I have played 1.8.2 and I am currently on my first LS run of 1.8.3. I know that you can present the sensors to find Zherron guilty but it also leaves the Sensor Search Quest open. 10/4/2008 Author: DarthHK Gate Guard to Trewin. This is just a quick.utc edit to change the name of the Gate Guard in the Undercity to the name he reveals in his dialog, which is "Trewin." Just a minor detail that always bugged me.

1. Kotor 2 Ghosts To Rest
2. Kotor 2 Refugee Woes

She actually counsels against DS for DS' sake actions, same as she does with LS.Kreia wasn't just out to knock off Jedi. She was out to knock off Jedi, Sith.everybody who uses the Force. And the Force itself. She saw the Force as, inherently, an element of chaos.

She, like some of the opinions expressed by some NPCs in TOR, believed that the galaxy would have a lot fewer problems - or at least multi-million death counts - without either Jedi or Sith around to hack at each other every few centuries.Now, contrast that with Lucas, who says the Force is the bestest thing ever bestiest bestest bestest, and the Jedi are the creamiest of the creamy cream crop (despite showing remarkable ineptitude at their stated jobs in his canon), and you can hopefully see why I view KotOR II as a Star Wars deconstruction. Hell, I'll dig up the old interview where Avellone said they wanted to take Star Wars in a direction it hadn't been before if I have to.I also think this. And it is for exactly that reason that I think Avellone was the wrong person to write a Star Wars game's story. Trying hard to break the 'rules' of franchise means a story probably shouldn't be written as a part of it.You know, sometimes the good guys ARE the good guys and the bad guys are the bad guys. For example, I don't think there ever needed to be a story set in Middle Earth where is was revealed Sauron was just trying to protect the oppressed orcs from human racism or something.I liked most of the individual parts of Kotor 2 better than the first game. Most of the characters especially, but despite the ridiculously unfinished nature of the game, I thought it's biggest problem was trying to tell a story that didn't fit into Star Wars at all in the end. And that's something that I don't think a restored ending can fix.

It's the whole point of the game.Kreia was still evil. Just because she had a specific (and utterly insane) agenda regarding nihilism and the force doesn't mean she wasn't evil.

So she had a reason for DS actions. That still means she'd be darkside. She encourages the Exile to treat all his or her companions like tools, after all.

Just because she doesn't approve of being a thug doesn't mean she is a neutral aligned character.Moreover, I found most of her pretentious attempts to question traditional Star Wars beliefs were about things that really didn't need to be questioned. Yet the game treated her statements like sage wisdom that couldn't be contradicted. That and she also seems to add a great deal of random information without explanation.For me, most of her attempts at lessons went like this:'Kreia: Is it really right to help people?' 'Kreia: Is it really wrong to be evil?' 'Yes it is, now shut up.' It's been a long time since I completed a playthrough, but I remember every time I did in the past, I wanted the option to tell her that she was crazy and I was going to be disregarding all her crazy and useless advice.

I disagree, at least when it is done to the extent that Kotor 2 did.For instance, If another Star Wars game or book came out that had great characters and great story but the author decided that they hated mysticism in Sci-fi and wrote in that the Force actually didn't exist and never had existed and that all the things previously attributed to the Force in the movies and books actually had all been Jedi or Sith parlor tricks, then that would still be a terrible Star Wars story regardless of how good the rest of it was. That's obviously a more extreme example of Kotor 2 but I think the principle still applies. Personally, I agree completely with Cavell. The more 'grey' approach led to, in my opinion, a far more interesting storyline. Nothing is wrong with the Star Wars as a franchise sticking to black and white morality, however they get fairly bland quite easily. KotOR II managed to paint the universe in a different way, which personally I feel is actually far more engaging and potentially more realistic.

Kreia was an amazing character, and I found myself agreeing with some of the points she made, or at least agreeing they were worthy points to make and consider: whether that reflects her manipulative qualities (which does credit to her writers + voice actor), or that she was actually right, I don't entirely know.Avellone didn't exactly 'break the rules' of the franchise, but did questioned them. Such questions asked in the voice of characters, in an entirely believable way, and a way in which it is impossible to contradict Lucas' (as creator's) own opinion of his universe's morality; in the same way humans can question the fundamental nature of forces such as gravity, but cannot change what they are. Not an entirely accurate comparison, but more accurate than the suggested 'the Force is a hoax' or 'Sauron was a good guy' exaggerations.With the restored content I believe KotOR II was probably the most enjoyable Star Wars game I have played, however KotOR I will always hold a special place in my heart.

Personally, I agree completely with Cavell. The more 'grey' approach led to, in my opinion, a far more interesting storyline. Nothing is wrong with the Star Wars as a franchise sticking to black and white morality, however they get fairly bland quite easily. KotOR II managed to paint the universe in a different way, which personally I feel is actually far more engaging and potentially more realistic.

Kreia was an amazing character, and I found myself agreeing with some of the points she made, or at least agreeing they were worthy points to make and consider: whether that reflects her manipulative qualities (which does credit to her writers + voice actor), or that she was actually right, I don't entirely know.Avellone didn't exactly 'break the rules' of the franchise, but did questioned them. Such questions asked in the voice of characters, in an entirely believable way, and a way in which it is impossible to contradict Lucas' (as creator's) own opinion of his universe's morality; in the same way humans can question the fundamental nature of forces such as gravity, but cannot change what they are. Not an entirely accurate comparison, but more accurate than the suggested 'the Force is a hoax' or 'Sauron was a good guy' exaggerations.With the restored content I believe KotOR II was probably the most enjoyable Star Wars game I have played, however KotOR I will always hold a special place in my heart.It is not so much the darker tone or the greyer story (I liked those) or even Kreia's questioning of traditonal tropes that bothered me.

It was the fact that I never felt like we got to really respond to anything she said. Or almost never. Almost like the game tried send home the point that she was clearly right.As a lightside payer I felt Kreia to constantly wrong about just about everything in all her teachings and rarely, if ever, did she ever say something that I found profound or would cause me question the traditional worldview. She just kept following me around telling me to do bad things for reasons that I never agreed with.The fact that she is always in your ear and most opposing viewpoints are treated with little regard felt like the game wanted me to agree with her.

All the Jedi Masters you meet are portrayed as arrogent foolish weaklings (or already killed by a Sith Lord) that Kreia or her student eventually murder with contemptuous ease. While with Kriea, she not only supposedly succeeded at everything but you never get to break her smug exterior even in the end of the game when you defeat her. I don't know if this changes with the Restored Content Mod but the only time I remember she seemed at all ruffled was for a single moment in one conversation that is quickly forgotten when you tell her that you can hear Bao'Dur's thoughts. Kreia seems to be portayed as always smarter and more powerful than essentially everyone around her.I got the sense that the plot itself also seemed to hint she was right, seeing as she apparently manipulated everthing to fit into her plan perfectly and even other charcters appeared to send the message that the Force was either unnessary or bad like the Mandalorians or the inspirational speach from Mical or Visas near the end.Add the fact that she would often say something bizzare without explanation. Like she'd say 'Dont do X, it will weaken you' and never tell you why or when she said 'There must always be a Darth Traya.' What does that even mean?To top it all off, once the insanity of her final motives (Kill the Force) and crazy reason for thinking it was possible (Somehow I know that The Force's destiny doesn't apply to you) just stopped me from taking her or the game all that seriously in the finale.The final impression I had been left with was that she was an evil nihilistic lunatic with delusions of granduer, but I think I was supposed to respect her even if I didn't agree with everything she said.

Seeing as she was kind of the main part of the story of Kotor 2, that severely affected the game's story in my eyes.The above video of her talking to the Exile is a good example of her philosophy. She says that the darkside is a quick short path that doesn't lead to higher answers, then pretty much spouts off Sith Teachings 101 almost word for word.

And it wouldn't take a Jedi player long to dismiss this as wrong. She's really not that exceptionally different from many of the traditional molds of a Sith.And apart from Kreia there is also the fact that her and the Exile's story (among other things) clearly does no tseem fit into established continuity. The driving force of the whole game is that the Exile was wounded through the force by the mass destruction at Malachor V causing her or him to cut themselves off from the Force to survive while others perished.

An intruiging idea certainly, except this does not make sense with either Kotor I or the movies. Neither Revan, Malak or Bastila collapsed in agony with the destruction of Taris and Darth Vader didnt fall over dead in A New Hope after the destruction of Alderaan.

The only way I was able to rationalize that and Nihilus's ridiculously overpowered abilities was with a lot of headcanon. It is not so much the darker tone or the greyer story (I liked those) or even Kreia's questioning of traditonal tropes that bothered me. It was the fact that I never felt like we got to really respond to anything she said. Or almost never.

Almost like the game tried send home the point that she was clearly right.As a lightside payer I felt Kreia to constantly wrong about just about everything in all her teachings and rarely, if ever, did she ever say something that I found profound or would cause me question the traditional worldview. She just kept following me around telling me to do bad things for reasons that I never agreed with.The fact that she is always in your ear and most opposing viewpoints are treated with little regard felt like the game wanted me to agree with her. All the Jedi Masters you meet are portrayed as arrogent foolish weaklings (or already killed by a Sith Lord) that Kreia or her student eventually murder with contemptuous ease. While with Kriea, she not only supposedly succeeded at everything but you never get to break her smug exterior even in the end of the game when you defeat her. I don't know if this changes with the Restored Content Mod but the only time I remember she seemed at all ruffled was for a single moment in one conversation that is quickly forgotten when you tell her that you can hear Bao'Dur's thoughts.

Kreia seems to be portayed as always smarter and more powerful than essentially everyone around her.I got the sense that the plot itself also seemed to hint she was right, seeing as she apparently manipulated everthing to fit into her plan perfectly and even other charcters appeared to send the message that the Force was either unnessary or bad like the Mandalorians or the inspirational speach from Mical or Visas near the end.Add the fact that she would often say something bizzare without explanation. Like she'd say 'Dont do X, it will weaken you' and never tell you why or when she said 'There must always be a Darth Traya.' What does that even mean?To top it all off, once the insanity of her final motives (Kill the Force) and crazy reason for thinking it was possible (Somehow I know that The Force's destiny doesn't apply to you) just stopped me from taking her or the game all that seriously in the finale.The final impression I had been left with was that she was an evil nihilistic lunatic with delusions of granduer, but I think I was supposed to respect her even if I didn't agree with everything she said. Seeing as she was kind of the main part of the story of Kotor 2, that severely affected the game's story in my eyes.The above video of her talking to the Exile is a good example of her philosophy. She says that the darkside is a quick short path that doesn't lead to higher answers, then pretty much spouts off Sith Teachings 101 almost word for word. And it wouldn't take a Jedi player long to dismiss this as wrong. She's really not that exceptionally different from many of the traditional molds of a Sith.And apart from Kreia there is also the fact that her and the Exile's story (among other things) clearly does no tseem fit into established continuity.

The driving force of the whole game is that the Exile was wounded through the force by the mass destruction at Malachor V causing her or him to cut themselves off from the Force to survive while others perished. An intruiging idea certainly, except this does not make sense with either Kotor I or the movies.

Neither Revan, Malak or Bastila collapsed in agony with the destruction of Taris and Darth Vader didnt fall over dead in A New Hope after the destruction of Alderaan. This page is not meant to keep you from following the link you've clicked on. It is just a warning that you are about to leave this website. To go to this page, click the link below.If you do not wish to follow this link, simply.The statements and opinions expressed on these websites are solely those of their respective authors and do not necessarily reflect the views, nor are they endorsed by Bioware, LucasArts, and its licensors do not guarantee the accuracy of, and are in no way responsible for any content on these websites. This page is not meant to keep you from following the link you've clicked on.

It is just a warning that you are about to leave this website. To go to this page, click the link below.If you do not wish to follow this link, simply.The statements and opinions expressed on these websites are solely those of their respective authors and do not necessarily reflect the views, nor are they endorsed by Bioware, LucasArts, and its licensors do not guarantee the accuracy of, and are in no way responsible for any content on these websites.

Star Wars Knights of The Old Republic vs. KoTOR 2With the impending release of Bioware’s The Old Republic MMO, its time to look back on the two predecessors to this latest release, detailing there successes and failures along with analysing their respective triumphs within the gaming world. This article will explore the question of Star Wars Knights of The Old Republic vs. KoTOR 2, trying to search for an answer to which game is quantifiable better or at least presents something more telling than the other.Both games realised immense potential in the franchise they were taking from, with Star Wars canon being a fervent hotbed of potential stories & plot threads, also creating a new pathos & philosophy to the universe through their gameworld. Taking the series back 4000 years before any of the films direct timeline helped Bioware and Obsidian after them to create a unique yet familiar Star Wars interpretation. It is only on further reflection that we see the inherent difference between George Lucas’ often naive utopian dichotomy of the subject matter and the substantive morality eschewed by the games developers.

KoTOR I: Famaliarity With The Source Material. The original, released by Bioware to general appraisal by critics and gamers alike, took the notion of D&D based rules and integrated them into its thematically charged RPG gameplay.

The stop-start stratagem was co-ordinated through numbers behind the scenes, dictating whether your lightsaber would slice through an enemy or completely miss their often alien frame. Taking leave of the conventional framework of up to that point, either obsessing over lightsaber combat or the popular X-Wing series, by portraying a vibrant living galaxy with individuals willing to converse and exist in their own right.Often the KoTOR I had a penchant for immersing you in this galaxy through proxy.

Events would unfurl when you triggered them by entering a cantina or landing on a new planet, with lines drawn and sides all but readily taken. The shockingly restrictive morality of the source material made matters difficult however, with three distinct options for any situation becoming a tiresome cookie-cutter mechanic, due to the light/dark or good/evil divide constantly being touted and ingrained into the players consciousness. KoTOR II: Finding A New Perspective. Surprisingly the epitome of KoTOR II remained largely unchanged. But a single difference made all the cardboard morals of the first game nigh-reprehensible. Giving context to your actions, as an example in the scene where Kreia scolds the player for giving a beggar some change only to see him then robbed of it, while reinforcing the impracticality of divine good or evil.This is certainly where KoTOR II & Obsidian make strides toward disseminating the fundamental principals of their source material and even predecessor. Knowing that even positive dialogue choices or actions can still have a negative response makes the game that much more morally grey and mature in its storytelling.

A Look At Star Wars Knights of The Old Republic vs. KoTOR 2Bioware & KoTOR I shouldn’t go without praise however, as they introduced us to the concept of morally gray choices through their hermit-like Jedi Jolee Bindo. With his cutting demeanour, scything candour and defensive posture, Jolee forgoes the logical assumption that all force wielder’s either devote themselves to constant good or heinous evil.This sets up the events of the second game very well, with the idea of neutrally suspect moral judgement in veteran players minds, along with the idea that Jedi & Sith are both unrealistic constructs.In its discoloring of Star Wars crystal clear moral scale, KoTOR II done away with a fixed alignment for the players, giving them a dynamic one to match the ever changing moral choices dealt with by the player. In a vein similar to three-choices-that-all-suck system; players had to seriously think about how their actions would affect the gameworld.This was further reinforced during the players travels across the planet of Telos. With two factions vying to either restore or cultivate the landmass below the floating city structure. Czerka Corporation sees the restoration project as farce and wants capital gains in an all too familiar fashion, while the planets natives seek to restore the wildlife in an almost idealistic fervour, all the while showcasing the inherent moral dilemma to the player. The One Problem Holding KoTOR II Back.

Kotor 2 Ghosts To Rest

Although on the surface, siding with the restoration project would be the light side choice and choosing to back Czerka would be negatively charged, the game tries to colour both sides in a way to make the player remember their actions can reverberate more than they initially suspect. Whereas a simple alignment statistic may change for the player; the options were influenced by the players sense of place within the context of the story and their investment in the universe, creating a harder and much more satisfying choice/experience.With all this said, one problem still sticks out like a sore thumb, regardless of KoTOR II’s perceived accomplishment. It was never finished. While KoTOR I may pay homage to the Star Wars films in an overzealous & forthright manner, it is still tightly pieced together and well-rounded, cumulatively being one of the best RPG’s in recent memory. Due to time restrictions and publisher Lucas Arts judgement, KoTOR II ended up losing out on its own canonical ending, with plenty of extra content cut or disused upon release. Which Is Better?

Star Wars Knights of The Old Republic vs. Its disheartening to know that such a great game was bilked from the precipice of something remarkable due to time constraints and Lucas Arts rush for the Christmas market. If there was one positive to take however, it would be that ending the game on the dour note that it does, the second game helps to paint as the standout of the two. Alleviating its morally suspect machinations and letting the first game of the series showcase its presentation, story and above all characters.Introducing game player’s to the repercussions of their actions is no small feat and KoTOR II at least attempted to explain to the player their implicit carelessness in moral actions or general choices. For that, its at least worth revising the question of which is better in the battle between Star Wars Knights of The Old Republic vs. KoTOR II, even if the first game still produces a greater Star Wars based experience.

Kotor 2 Refugee Woes

This post is part of the series: KoTOR Reviews.